Outerviews: Mick Sleeper (2)

After our first conversation in December 1997, I was glad to know that the Upsetter was very pleased about the interview and was anxious to talk with me again. So on a Monday afternoon in February 1998, I became Mick Waker (Scratch doesn't think I should call myself "Sleeper" anymore) and spoke with him for about a half hour. Once again, I had to hold on tight, but I gained some very interesting information and opinions from Record President Abraham Lincoln Rainford King Hugh Blue Sky White Ice And Snow Perry.

Scratch: Hello, Mr. Sleeper!

Sleeper: Ites, Upsetter! Here is Mr. Sleeper, who is now awake.

Scratch: You are now awake?

Sleeper: I am now Mr. Waker and Mr. Shaker.

Scratch: Why are you shaking like that? You say you are Mr. Shaker. You don't have to shake because I am the taker (laughs). And also the undertaker!

Sleeper: How are things in your winternet?

Scratch: I am also the baker, and the candlestick maker. How is the weather?

Sleeper: The weather is okay.

Scratch: The weather is okay? You have sunshine?

Sleeper: No, it's cloudy today.

Scratch: You don't have sunshine?

Sleeper: No, but it's nice out.

Scratch: The sunshine is Mr. Baker. I did have -- er -- this is a worldwide love message from the Upsetter in the internet. This is a worldwide love message from the Upsetter, Pound Shilling and Pence Perry, Record President Abraham Lincoln Rainford King Hugh Blue Sky White Ice And Snow Perry. Jahovah, God winternet.

Sleeper: How are things in your winternet?

Scratch: Well, this is a new outerview from my interview, and I'm speaking from my inside here to your outside there in Canada. To break the spell, the government will have to repent to my music government, because only my music government can make people happy. There is no government that can make people happy with taxes, and VATs.

Sleeper: All of your fans on the internet send peace and love to Lee "Scratch" Perry.

Scratch: Well, Lee "Scratch" Perry is the only one on this planet who can make people merry. Because I am Ethiopia, ET. And the people out there don't know about ET. ET exists! Ethiopia is ET! So everybody get mixed up and say "Lee Perry is talking like a white man now and saying ET exists". I do say ET exists, because I am sure ET exists. Ethiopia is ET. The creator who makes himself into many forms. Walks through the pipes in the form of St. Germaine. The facts remain that God is alive, and God can walk through pipes, and God can walk through raindrops, walk on the sea, and God have a UFO fleet. UFOs are real, so ET is also real! The extraterrestrials from heaven now attack the heads of government, and the heads of government are now in trouble with Mr. £$P Perry. You understand?

Sleeper: (feeling as if he has just walked into an X Files episode) Yes, I do.

Scratch: With Mr. £$P Perry. If you look into the alphabet from A - Z, you will see L is for Lee, L is for light, and L is for love, and L is for the Lord. S is for the sky, and S is for shit, and for ships. P is for power and the pyramids, and I am the pyramid and the power. The Queen of England knows that she has been robbing me all these years. The IMF know that as well. So they are under my shit power. So if they want any more money, they have to pick up the papers and the trash, or they won't get no spending cash. That's a message to the archbishops and the Popes, and the heads of government, and the House Of Lords, and the ministers of crimes and the criminals. If they don't pick up the papers and keep all the streets clean, then they won't get no spending cash from Mr. Perry Pound Shillings And Pence. After they finish doing that, they have to go let out the dogs and bring in the cats -- meeoww -- go to the kitchen and wash up the dishes and wash up the pots. And say "Our father who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name, Lee 'Scratch' Perry, the Upsetter", or they won't get no spending cash. And I penalize every police on this planet Earth. With ganja, herbs, marijuana, lamb's bread, sensemilla. This is Addis Ababa speaking, I'm heavy.

Sleeper: Alright! Well, this time I only have a half hour for the interview, so let me know when you are ready to answer some questions.

Scratch: I already threaten all of the police with cancer. And I threaten all of the heads of government with cancer. And they will not find the answer, because the pope is at the end of his rope and has no hope. You understand?

Sleeper: The pope has lost his soap on a rope.

Scratch: (Laughs) Because the police fight against ganja, I threaten the police with cancer. Cancer from cigarettes free. The police who love ganja, them have a chance, but the police who have cigarettes I wish them to death. Enjoy your cancer from cigarettes! While Rastafari laugh - heh heh heh heh. You can ask me your questions when you are ready!

Sleeper: Well, I have many questions to ask, but I need to ask about the past. I know you don't always like talking about the past.

Scratch: I can talk about it, because there are some people from the past who have to live, I don't want to penalize the people who should live. So I can go back to the past thoughtically. Words only, not in the flesh, not in the blood. I can go back to the past thoughtically, with my thoughts. The door is open.

Sleeper: I see. Well, this time I want to ask you about some of the artists you've worked with, because these people never sounded better than when they worked with Lee "Scratch" Perry.

Scratch: Because I am the holy ghost. And I am the holy toaster. I am a holy spirit who used to drink rum, and eat meat. I was eating meat and forgetting that I am an angel and then become almost a vampire, eating meat and drinking wine and drinking alcohol. Then I wasn't an angel anymore, I was a cannibal. So I found that I was a cannibal, and fell into cannibal trap, and I burn down the Ark. And get rid of those cannibals, and come back normal - stop drinking rum, stop eating meat, and get back to the angel style as an elf on the shelf in my blue igloo. You can continue with your questions about the past, I will answer. That is why I can answer, because other producers drink rum and eat meat. So they are cannibals.

Sleeper: Junior Byles. Tell me about working with Junior Byles, he's one of my favorites.

Scratch: He was a spirit. He was a living angel, sir. He was humble, and with the humble I can do anything. With the meek, I can do anything, but those who are not humble I hand them over to the devil. With meek spirits I can do anything, everything is possible with a meek person. That is why I have said "calling all the meek, calling all the humble, come and meet I in the blackboard jungle". For if they are meek and humble, all things will be possible. They will find what they seek, and they will not be crumble by thunder, the big rumble. So once you are meek, there is nothing impossible for Lee "Scratch" Perry to do. Lee "Scratch" Perry has confessed that he was drinking rum and eating meat and forgetting that he was an angel and become a cannibal. Then he burn down what he create as a half animal and vampire with fire and get himself re-cleansed. So all the humble spirits and all the humble people can look to Lee "Scratch" Perry, and Lee "Scratch" Perry can do anything for them. But those who are not humble, I will not do anything for them. I give them to the rumble to be rocked up and killed.

Sleeper: I see. What about Junior Murvin?

Scratch: Also good. Also an angel, as well.

Sleeper: Tell me more about your most famous production, "Police And Thieves".

Scratch: Police and who?

Sleeper: "Police And Thieves", the famous song you did with Junior Murvin.

Scratch: Yeah, it's all reality, about people and police and thieves on the street. The police working with the government, and the thief in the government, the thieving government who thieving tax away from innocent people. The thieving police -- you should watch the police more than the thieves, because if the city didn't have thieves, the city wouldn't need police. So when the city gives up having police, you give up having thieves -- because the police and thieves are the unwanted population in God's creation. They are pests on the Earth - they all should die, police and thieves. All the soldiers should die, and all the police should die and all the thieves should die and then we have peace on this planet Earth.

Sleeper: After that one song, you made many versions of it, like "Soldier And Police War" with Jah Lion...

Scratch: If there was no soldier, there wouldn't be any war. And if there are no thieves, then there is no need for any police. So if a person have thieves in the country, they should behead all the thieves so that we don't need to pay the police so much money. Put up a guillotine to behead all thieves, then we don't need police forces. Force the guillotine to behead all the thieves, then we don't have a police force because the police know that the thief is thief, and the police know that the thief thieve lots of money, then the police going to try to get some of the money before he kill the thief. And the police won't kill the thief until the police know where the thief hide the money - so they work together. They lie also because they want some of the money too. The judges, too! Full of grudges. There is no lawyer on this Earth who is clean because of money, money mess them all up. Money is the devil, the Satan on this Earth.

Sleeper: There were many versions using the "Police And Thieves" rhythm - how come so many versions?

Scratch: Because it's an original song about the future, and it's a future sound from the heavens, from the blue spirits that form ice and snow, make the winternet. So that creation was there ten years ago talking about police and thieves. If you don't have thieves, then you won't need police, and if you don't have police you won't see thieves, but there's an easier way to get rid of the thieves. Put up a guillotine to behead all of the thieves, and you won't need police because all of the thieves would be afraid of losing their heads! So we have many version of "Police And Thieves".

Sleeper: What about Dave Barker? He's another one of my favorites.

Scratch: Yeah, he's okay, but a guy who can be called over by another producer - just like that - because of a little money, them don't mean nothing to me. He was with me, he was nothing, him didn't even know what to say until he get the holy blessing from me. I don't want those type of people around me anymore, I don't want to hear their name anymore. They're sick. Stink! Even though they have a good voice, it doesn't matter because people can give them poison to give you. Or give them too much power, and then they're not with you anymore. Okay?

Sleeper: (Thinking of Dave Barker's voice shouting "this is - upsetting!") Alright, then, what about the Heptones?

Scratch: Very good, no problems. They were working together with me on my project, they were part of my whole body and my strength and creation. When I was creating a thing like the Congos, no one in the Congos can sing. Everything was sung by the Heptones, it was a joke I was making. And we would tell the joke. Heptones was singing the background and the melody most of the time, I was doing it on a special magic track. Heptones was behind the Congos album! From there is no Heptones, then there is no Lee Perry, and there can't be no Congos. 'Cause they won't get a chance to eat elephant anymore.

Sleeper: I think that Party Time by the Heptones is one of your best albums as a producer. What do you think about it?

Scratch: Heptones is a part of me, man. That's why the past makes sense. When you ask me these questions like this, can I deny the facts and the truth? I cannot deny the facts, can I?

Sleeper: No.

Scratch: I cannot deny the facts. The facts trod over Columbia Records and make Columbia Records look stupid. The facts trod over EMI Records and make EMI Records look stupid. The facts trod over Sony Records, over CBS Records, and they are all dumb. They all fall seven feet deep under the ground, they get a curse. I am on top. With roots records, double music, dub revolution, black arkology, and I am the black monarchy. You understand? I am the black monarchy and the soldier in the khaki. When I speak, spirits shoot out of my mouth, and when I speak against my enemies they must die. If you don't believe me, ask the blue sky. Who am I? (Makes crying baby noises). When I cry, all my enemies die.

Sleeper: What about the Upsetters? The last time you called them "the original crime squad".

Scratch: Well, those things that I hire called the Upsetters weren't truly the Upsetters, they were traitors. I am the Upsetter, and I can put my upsetting power into any musician and they become Upsetters. There was no Black Ark, I am the Black Ark. I am the Black Ark, and the Black Ark is my head. My train is my leg, and my brain is my aeroplane. And I am the UFO S. The unidentified flying object, peace. Ice and fire. I am the internet and I am the winternet. And they don't see nothing yet! Do re mi fa so la ti do cyrus. No, I mean cyplus, surplus, I am the best. Better than Muhammad Ali, he was a folly. I show Muhammad Ali for folly with collie. I go to Hollywood and change Hollywood into Colliewood. I go to United States of America, stick up Uncle Sam, and ram up Uncle Sam, and jam up Uncle Sam, and rob up Uncle Sam. Straight from Jamaica, I am Uncle Jam, who jam up Uncle Sam (roars with laughter). I bam up Uncle Sam. Bam up my enemies because I am Uncle Bam. I am James Bam, 007, and I am from heaven, I am not from hell. I only go to hell to kill the devil, to let them know that I am sent from heaven. And the Angel Gabriel put seashell on my feet to walk on the seven seas with lightning in my teeth. Mr. Sleeper, I am glad you are a waker, because I am the earthquake shaker and the earthquake maker. You understand me?

Sleeper: You make the earth quake.

Scratch: This is a perfect outerview and the perfect interview. From my thunder rock I am speaking to all the humans who are dying and who are crying. Why? They are crying because I am sitting on all the money. And I am standing on the German bank and I kaput their economy. Hit the Germans with the rock and pack the Germans like I pack the Russians with my rock and hit the Russians with my cock. (Like a rooster's "cock a doodle doo") Rasta Far I! Rasta Far I! I am emporer Selassie I. It's me. I wear the face of his Majesty Haile Selassie I. I don't imitate like Michael Jackson, and I don't make babies out of machine, I make them out of my cock (another rooster's crow). Okay? I am glad you are awake, Mr. Sleeper, in this internet. And I am thanking you very much for helping me build up my winternet. And everything is real nice because I kaput the robbers with cold sweat.

Sleeper: One last question about the Upsetters. When you gave the musicians your upsetting power, who got it first, the Hippy Boys or Gladdy's All Stars?

Scratch: I was using Jackie Jackson on bass, Hucks on guitar, Hugh Malcolm on drums and Lloyd Knibbs on drums sometimes. When those thieves come around, it had already gone through the gears. And they wanted a taste, so I let them in as young guys, but they couldn't fit the space, the space kicked them out and said they are not fit. Because they were like news carrier, carrying news about what I use at my studio, so the space get them out. So those guys - Jackie Jackson, Hucks Brown, Hugh Malcolm, Lloyd Knibbs, Jerry on guitar -- they were with me all the time until those shits come around, those Hippy Boys who become Wailers -- ugh -- then I knew they were perfect failures.

Sleeper: Okay, because I've read that the Hippy Boys were first.

Scratch: With Lee "Scratch" Perry? Everybody was dreaming! It was Jackie Jackson all the way. Hucks Brown, Hugh Malcolm, Lloyd Knibbs. If you doubt it, you can take a trip to Jamaica, they will tell you that Hippy Boys take the train but they hop on too late. Because the music they were playing, the Hippy Boys lie. Everything was a lie, if everything they put up wasn't a lie, maybe Bob Marley wouldn't die. A lie is an abomination to the gods of creation. And they that speaketh lies shall die by the lies they tell.

Sleeper: You recorded some music at the Black Ark with two Africans from Zaire, Kalo Kawongolo and Seke Molenga.

Scratch: Definitely.

Sleeper: What do you remember about those two?

Scratch: I remember when they come, I know they were sent from Africa, because Africa wanted to make that heart connection in the Ark studio. So a pure African have to appear in the Ark Of The Covenant to manifest the African drum. So Seke Molenga and the boys, they were sent by his majesty emporer Selassie to Lee "Scratch" Perry in his Black Ark studios, is not a joke. I remember everything about it, and it was perfect.

Sleeper: The last time we talked, you told me that you were building the "African arkology" at the Black Ark. Why was Africa so important to you?

Scratch: They were there with the African drum because I was requesting one thousand drums and me say they have to come from the African jungle. From Bengal, from Skull Cave, because they couldn't come from Jamaica. Jamaican can play reggae drum, but the reggae drum they play is begrudging the art they are playing for you. So they put out a record, but the records are put out by some grudgeful artists. Those who are playing for the money, is not a spiritual affair. It's not a holy affair, and not a righteous affair, it's an evil affair. So I couldn't get anything good with Jamaican drums and Jamaican bass players... But what I was building with Jackie, it was perfect, until things change. It was ska days, they change into a different vibration. A spiritual vibration. And Jackie wasn't on the spiritual vibration anymore. I make "People Funny Boy" with Jackie and them, and the spiritual vibration. Then all those little promoters come around, and the vibration started to mix. And I don't like my vibration to mix, so that's why I make they change. And those idiots say the Hippy Boys come first! I was calling Jackie and them the Upsetters for a long time - I take a new set and call them the Upsetters as well. Take them to London and show some of the songs they were playing, it wasn't them playing it. I was making a show and making a joke. Well, the joke wasn't good for me, because it bring death to the Black Ark studio in Jamaica. But it didn't bring death to me, because my brain is the Black Ark studio. For real. And my brain is ET. Ethiopia.

Sleeper: Who else knew about your vibration in the early days? Who understood your ideas?

Scratch: I understand myself very well. I wish not to lie, because I wish not to die.

Sleeper: But who else understood your ideas?

Scratch: I wish to live forever, I didn't wish for money, but because there was no one else to take the money, the money have to come to me. Because there is no one else on this planet Earth greedy enough to have the money. But £ for pound, S for shilling P for Pence Perry. With the mother drums of Africa.

Sleeper: Now, I've heard that gunmen stole some of your Wailers productions. Is that true?

Scratch: That's why Rastafari, the jungle sufferer, is vex in the rain. Send lightning and thunder and hailstone and brimstone and fire to burn up wicked brain. Crumble evil trains. You can't win against the great ball of fire. And Lee "Scratch" Perry stand on solid rock while all others stand on sinking sand. I stand on rock. I stand on rock and soul and jazz and pop, and pop rock, the rock pop. Pieces of rock and lightning flash (makes exploding sound effects). You understand?

Sleeper: Ka pow!

Scratch: So when I shit all my enemies bend up, and when I speak they split up. And I say to all the poor people "get up!" or else I will break their back, freeze up their cock with Rastafari rock. Then thunder roll and give me the magic scroll. I've got magic galore, I am magic! You ask me "what kind of magic have you got?" I've got magic to turn cash into trash and turn trash into cash. I have magic to turn death into life. I am the life giver and I am the life taker, and I am the law giver and the law taker, and I am the law breaker who break up Babylon liar. Mash up Babylon law and crumble Babylon law and stumble Babylon law. And Babylon shall know that I am the law of laws, I am the law giver, that is the magic I've got. I have the magic to change laws, and I have power to punish governments and sabotage governments and break down governments and give seven years of famine. You understand? Until they repent to ganja. Then I'll give them cancer. So they can choose ganja or choose cancer, they still have a choice. So all you governments out there, pick your choice: one leads to life, the other to death. All you police and soldier, make your choice. If you choose ganja, then you shall live. Mr. Waker! Mr. Waker!

Sleeper: Yes?

Scratch: You say that you are Mr. Shaker? I was born, and I was sent - I fly from Kryptonite when Kryptonite explode. On a black spaceship I enter Earth into a Kryptonite rock and cut off all the government cock and break their back and burn up their stock market. Kaput their economy and chase the money changers out of my holy temple and say "repent, heads of government, or I shall make you drink your piss and eat your shit". In my blue igloo. Winternet. Net. Net net net net net... (Sings) Don't you know Mr. Perry have a net, to net the heads of government, net the council of churches, and net all of the Popes and bishops... Now I net the Pope in a cluster and hit this Pope with a knuckle duster! Break up the Pope's back and bend up the bishops' shoulder, the bishops suddenly start to get older. They can't hardly walk, can hardly speak. Went to Cuba, can't help Fidel Castro. None can help Fidel Castro. Fidel Castro pick up a curse, and the Pope can't help Fidel Castro. (Sings) Poor Pope and poor Fidel Castro, caught them in my winternet... And you ain't seen nothing yet! I conquer death and I am he who create cold sweat. I am the original super baby! (In a falsetto voice) I come to this planet in a blazing fire spaceship and I've got fire in my hat! I am super baby who turn into the super boy and I am Superman!

Sleeper: (Laughing, trying to compose himself) Alright... My time is almost up. Many of your Black Ark productions have a cow mooing in them. What's up with the cow?

Scratch: Black Ark?

Sleeper: The cow!

Scratch: The cow?

Sleeper: MOOOO...

Scratch: MOOOO... MOOOO... The cow represent holy Moses, sir! And God speak to the cow, holy Moses, on the mountain. And he said "warn the nation that seven years of famine is coming to all who fight against ganja, marijuana, lamb's bread, and sensemilla." MO-O-O-O-O-O. The MO is Moses, sir. And God speak to Moses on the mountain.

Sleeper: Alright, one last question. Even though you're not getting any money from the record companies, you still must feel happy that everyone is listening to your music now.

Scratch: I am happy, sir! Why I am so happy is because the people who want to hear the truth are hearing it. And one of these days all of these record companies are going to kaput, and they are going to be liquidated, and run out of money and run out of good luck and run into bad luck, and that will serve them right for stealing Lee "Scratch" Perry, sir. But as long as they are supplying the records and the people can get it, I am laughing, sir. Ha ha ha ha ha ha! Sooner or later, cancer for Island Records, Mango Records, Trojan Records, CBS Records, and Sony Records, but as long as they are supplying my records for my fans who love me so much I will laugh -- ha ha ha ha ha -- until the day I liquidate them and exterminate them. Ha ha ha ha ha! Anything else?

Sleeper: No, that's all I have time for. No more questions, sir.

Scratch: Wonderful. And say hello to the people on the internet and tell them when they get Lee "Scratch" Perry records, they are getting education from the past, education from the present, and education from the future. And I am the bird stick lawyer, and I am the fishes' lawyer, and I am the animals' lawyer, and I am the jungle lawyer.

Sleeper: Alright, it's been nice talking to you.

Scratch: Wonderful, it's good talking to you as well. And thanks for your help, Mr. Waker.

Sleeper: Well, thank you for answering my questions.

Scratch: You must say Mr. Shaker. I am the real shaker! You thought that you were the shaker, but I am the real earthquake shaker (laughs). Alright, have a strongfront - don't have a weekend anymore, weekend is not good, weekend means you will have a weak end. So I don't wish you a good weekend, I wish you a good strongfront. Have a strongfront, Mr. Waker.